In doing this, we evaluated another GM unit the 4L60-E TMBX to see if we could pick up any clues. - Scope testing the Ford 10R80. Solution This 10L80 transmission problem could be the result of a failed oil cooler line fitting retaining bolt. Reverse 4.87. Applications. The TCI six-speed version has a few special additions to it. While the 6L80 is generally mechanically compatible with Chevrolet and GM Gen. III+ engines, due to its advanced control strategy, the 6L80 is functionally compatible only with Generation IV GM engines and their matched Engine Control Modules. But, GM had been in transmission limbo, so to speak, needing a modern transmission to fill the duty gap between the excellently versatile4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants)and the Allison transmissions. When diagnosing this unit, it is very important to realize that the failure management programs built into the powertrain system may be a direct reflection of the customers drivability complaint. The traditional small-block six-bolt bellhousing pattern is the best and easiest way to identify a 4L60E style transmission if you find one at the swap meet for sale. OPTION 2- The newer and still somewhat mysterious 6L80e has a very enticing ratio selection (4.02, 2.36, 1.53, 1.15, 0.85, 0.67) that should allow the engine to stay within it's "power band" resulting in more usable power. How do Sonnax components prevent the failure that plagues these units? As an example, combining the TCI Six-speeds 2.97:1 First gear with a 3.50:1 rear gear ratio is equal to a traditional TH-400 (or stock 4L80E) with a 4.19:1 rear gear. Shift the transmission to Drive. Had transmission rebuilt (Pro).My problem is that when it gets around 35, 8L90E Specs, Performance, and Identification, TH400 Transmission Specs, ID, and Common Problems, Mazda 6 P0320: Meaning, Causes, & Diagnosis. I also have a 2wd 2006 Trailblazer SS with a forged 416ci stroked LS3 which makes around 600 hp or so with a Yank SS3600 stall converter. Most of the larger displacement applications will have an auxiliary oil-to-air cooler in the system as well. 6R80E Chevy Transmission Kit ATI has the first true externally controlled, 6-speed transmission package for your Chevrolet powered vehicle! You also asked about GM's new 6L80E. Members After an internal inspection of your transmission, we will notify you of any hard part damage that will carry an additional cost. Read more columns from our Shift Pointers series here. As you build the best transmission that you can for your customer, you should consider including an updated torque converter in the repair estimate. all that is needed is a Throttle position signal and Engine RPM. or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. The OE cover and piston are damaged to the point of not being reusable this is where all of the metal you find in the transmission comes from! Recently, they received a 2021 GMC Yukon with a very unusual sound coming from the front of its 10L80 transmission. 6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild We all know that automatic transmission failures can have many root causes. The CIDAS (Casting Integrated Direct Acting Solenoid) are all normally low solenoids. This pan fits the GM 6L90, 6L90E transmission, typically found on these vehicles: . In contrast, when the 10-speed transmission is at heavy or max throttle, the small steps keep the engine closer to the horsepower peak for the best performance. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? I believe the last digits of the model number are the power rating capabilities of the transmission. As the installer was pumping fluid into the transmission from the right side of the vehicle, he was having a difficult time getting it full. Finished in a durable and corrosion-resistant clear anodize. Transmission Report: 6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild. The 10R80 doesn't have a traditional "front" pump. The small 10-speed gear steps allow the engine speed to drop to lower values than it would in the 6-speed transmission, providing for the best fuel economy. JT. Jeff Smith: The TCI six-speed automatic is indeed a revamped or upgraded 4L80E. Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: How quickly time passes by. Thread starter 2nazty; Start date Nov 26, 2018; Nov 26, 2018 #1 2. Like earlier automatics, the 6L80 features one line pressure tap available for testing and diagnostic purposes. The stator shaft support housing comes with these gears as one assembly. full. If the warmer is not mounted to the transmission, refer to factory information to locate it. (incl. The GM Hydramatic 6L80 transmission heralds a significant change in the design of automatic transmissions at General Motors. This means that its designed for rear wheel drive vehicles only. CDT 10L80 Bench Rebuild. 10L80 Performance Rebuild. Codes P0741 or P1744 may or may not set in the PCM or TCM (depending on application). So its no wonder that the new cars accelerate so welltheyve got a ridiculously deep overall First gear ratio and reduced rpm drops between the gear changes. Use it to verify the vehicle has a M30 4L60ENow, if the transmission is out of the vehicle (or if you dont trust a sticker), the 6L80E has an 18 bolt case. Automatic Options - 4L60 and 4L60E. Its extremely important to scan all modules for codes and address those codes first! Its the best of both worlds. Sixth 1.28 Smith began writing for Car Craft magazine in 1979 and became editor in 1984. Can I assume my car has the General Motors GL80 with the 4.02 first gear? Ninth 0.69 First introduced in 2005, the 6L80 transmission is a 6-speed automatic gearbox that is made by General Motors at their Willow Run transmission factory in Ypsilanti Michigan, and at their transmission plant in Toledo, Ohio. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. What all needs to be done to change it from four-wheel-drive to 2 Wheel Dr? TAP-2000 is a floor mounted shifter with Tap up Tap Down for GM 6/8L80/90E transmissions. Im thinking 3.73. Is the out put shaft and splines on a 4L80E the same as a turbo 400? The Transmission Control Module (TCM) is an adaptive learning, 32-bit computer integrated into the valve body of the 6L80 / 6L90 and communicates with the Engine Control Module via the onboard vehicle CAN bus network. $ 439.00 Select options. 10L80 Transmission Specs General - 10-speed automatic with integral turbine clutch torque converter Application - RWD & 4WD / AWD RPO Code - MF6 Production Began - 2017 Case - 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing Torque Converter - 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) Nov 26 . 6L80/90 - 8L90 Floor Tap Shifter Kit. To be honest, we arent 100% sure of the real reason for JMBX cover and piston failure, but we do have a theory. The 6L80E uses four under drive gears and two overdrive gears. This is the abridged version of my problem. By reducing the rpm drop between gears, the engine remains within its power band. So you would need to begin with a 2008 or newer Express to be able to convert from a 4L80 to a 6L80 / 6L90. As we have all learned with other units, very often the root cause of a converter clutch failure stems from a failure within the electro/hydraulic controls from the transmission. This drives up the price of the rebuilt converter, but ensures that this kind of failure wont happen again. ** Currently 10L80 units are 2017+ so are dealer-only or salvage yard only. You also asked about GMs new 6L80E. Genuine ICT Billet - Bolts Made in USA!!!! Because of this, the 6L80 - despite having two or three more gears than its predecessors, is unexpectedly short in length. Change Your Address, Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gears Magazine. The bottom line: The very thin (.020") woven carbon friction material cant survive the way the JMBX piston applies. Find Dealer. Or did the OE stamped steel cover and piston flex and twist to the point that the clutch surface was not flat, causing a premature friction failure? I am interested in enhancing my vehicles performance. The exceptions to this would be the 2006-2014 Corvette, 2006 G8, 2010-2015 Camaro, and the Chevrolet SS. Thats more than almost any other GM automatic transmission. What is a good torque converter today for a 4.3 high output 4 wheel drive Blazer? Please help>> I have a 2013 GMC yukon. Application RWD & 4WD / AWD Second 2.99 Foremost on the list is the Sonnax clutch apply kit. However, it is a long transmission and is not compatible with short-wheelbase Jeeps such as the CJ5. Sometimes, finding the cause of a complaint isnt as straightforward as one would expect; sometimes, these causes can be very elusive. Starting in 1996, many 4L60E transmissions employed a bolt-on bellhousing. By Wayne Colonna. Homepage: Garage: Wiki: Register: Community: Calendar: Today's Posts: Search: #Camaro6 . The 6L90 transmission is slightly longer and taller than a comparable configuration 6L80 due to its beefier internals. TSB 18-NA-026 Transmission fluid leak document.write("- "+yr); While converter failures are not uncommon with other transmission families, you are thinking that this is really becoming a pattern for the 6L80, 6L90. Brake very gently to a complete stop and hold the foot brake for five (5) seconds. Which one you use is going to depend on whether or not the transmission is in or out of the vehicle. This seems to indicate that there will be other 10L80 transmissions that will be experiencing this same new kind of pump noise condition. If you know the RPO code for the transmission you are golden. The overall First gear ratio is 2.48 x 4.10 = 10.17:1. The subject is a rather common electrical fault that may occur on the PCS line pressure solenoid circuit, which results in max line pressure. Its interesting how the new 8- and 10-speed automatics have essentially turned the traditional powertrain ratio scheme 180 degrees. Learn how your comment data is processed. You will need to ship your transmission to us for the rebuild. The following drivability conditions will be present when this type of DTC is stored. Given the complexity of the TCM control strategy, the engineers made every effort to allow for partial operation of the unit under most failure conditions. Chevrolet Transmission Dimensions Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. 10L80 vs 10L90 Transmissions. The 6L80E went mostly into large vehicles with V8 motors. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle starts from a complete stop. Knowledge is power use it to protect your customer, your unit and yourself for miles and miles to come. The 6l80 was designed to handle the torque output of some of GM's biggest late-model LS (gen 4) and LT (gen 5) v8 engines, but a number of design flaws created most of the common 6L80E transmission problems. This transmission is the result of a collaborative effort with General Motors. All I can find is that it is sealed from the rear and just needs a new tail housing but some say its got to be completely rebuilt from the inside. The 6L80 / 6L90 TEHCM is located inside of the transmission on the 6L80 / 6L90 valve body. Page 2 August, 2019 Bulletin No. The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. The idler gear is what drives the pumps driven gear. Conceptually, locking the converter should help the mph trap speed by reducing slippage. The thicker JMBX piston cant conform to the cover (like it can in the 4L60-E TMBX), and at a commanded slip rate of approximately 50 RPMs in lockup, there is ultimately metal-to-metal contact that occurs between the front cover and the piston. Will this hurt the trani? Comparing that to our old TH-400 combo, wed need 5.40:1 rear gear to equal the overall First Gear ratio in the new Corvette. Theres also a unique internal thermal bypass that allows the transmission to warm up faster, reducing fuel consumption on cold starts. The original first three gear ratios are in fact still the same as the TH-400. Eighth 0.85 These tight gear ratios not only allow for lightning fast upshifts and downshifts. From the workshop on ongoing projects and more, and where the new images are added afterwards. The same shift strategy that is used for the upshift may be applied during a downshift. This creates the situation where the engine drops less rpm from First to Second gear. As the 10 speeds continue to make their way into our shops, keep in mind the more you know about them, the better off youll be. Indirectly affects TCC control and shift control. Do you know does the aftermarket have a fix? The 6L80 has surprised us power transmission aficionados with its wholesale adoption of new and very different technologies. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? Looking for parts number : new shaft, copling et seal and where to find them. By combining a wide 7.39 overall gear ratio spread, with smaller steps between each gear, this GM 10-speed automatic transmission is able to keep the engine in its ideal power band during acceleration. A P59 PCM controlled both the engine and the transmission. Respectfully, Len Gilbert Kitchener ON Canada. What is your recomendation for towing? The transmission will bolt up but will not work since the TCM, Tehcm and BCM are application specific and cannot interchanged. or Best Offer . But in the 6L80 JMBX, we started to look very closely at the converter itself to see if we could determine a root cause. * EXCELLENT FOR VEHICLES THAT ARE EQUIPPED WITH ENGINES PRODUCING UP TO 650 FT LBS OF TORQUE. However, if you look beyond the outside of the front covers of TMBX and JMBX and look inside the units, the similarity quickly disappears. Intermittent Fail Safe, Codes, Related Concerns and Solutions, The ZF 8-Speed Transmission Fluid and Filter Change, Tackling Clutch Failure in the GM 6L80/90, Change is in the Air Installing Updated Calibrations. GM was still using their trustworthy 4L80E transmissions for heavier duty use, which was essentially a 1960's technologyTH400with added 1990's overdrive and electronic controls. LS 3 has a Big Turbo on it, I am only worried about rear gear, rest I have help with, Car never went over 130 or it red lined with Big Block, Never was a highway car, It has a 373 or a 323 in it, Not a 411 I know that much, Thats all, Im building a gen one Camaro and Ive purchased lt4 supercharged motor for it I was wanting to know if you know the difference in size for 10 speed transmission to a turbo 400 I need to know how much to raise my floor pan at tunnel and about how much fire wall to cut out. Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: 2017- Ford F-150 2018- Ford Mustang 2018- Ford Expedition 2018- Lincoln Navigator 2019- Ford Ranger 2019- Ford Everest Conveniently, the main transmission that the 6L80E is going to be confused for all have a different number of pan gasket bolts. And now, with some of these transmissions coming out of warranty, the aftermarket will soon begin to see issues that occur with them beyond their first years of life during their aging process. I think the extra gears and the taller overdrive would be nice but I wonder if it's worth all the effort. and GCVW of 21,000 lbs. Specialized manifold for 10L80,10L90, 8L90, 6L80, and 6L90 transmissions, allowing you to connect -6AN fittings to your cooler lines. Lots of good information I do have one question That no one seems to be able to give a good answer to. to 885 ft. If concerns are still present, it may be necessary to service or replace the valve body assembly (Figure 6). LT). While working on a 2017-2018 Ford F150/Raptor, 2018 Expedition, Mustang, and Lincoln Navigator equipped with a 10R80 transmission, you may experience erratic TCC operation, or a TCC shudder concern. The GM 10L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is one such hybrid component that General Motors jointly developed with, wait for it, the Ford Motor Company! Wait 2 seconds. Before we get started, lets cover the basics. TCRA Annual Seminar Coming to Charlotte this April! Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? We pride ourselves in staying at the forefront of our industry, technology, research & development and our commitment to you, our customer. That is just the beginning. And with four gearsets and six clutches (2 brake, 4 rotating), the 10L80 10-speed has just one more clutch than the 8L90 8-speed transmission (this is partly because of a unique triple-clutch assembly mounted near the middle of the case). You are browsing camaro6. AM-DT-51190 threads into that port and connects to the J-45096 TransFlow. It is now on week number 7 at the dealer for warranty and the GM engineers are running that show only allowing the dealer to replace what they deem necessary. 2024 Mustang Prices Are Out, Dark Horse Is . 8L80E The 6L80Es gear rations are as follows: There are two super easy ways to tell whether or not the transmission is a 6L80E. Third 2.15 Diagnosis and correction of a max line pressure condition may become, With Hondas 10-speed front wheel drive transmission (see Figure 1, above) going into its fifth year on the roads, its feasible that one may show up in your shop for service. Trans temps climbed to 195 and has stayed there ever since. Ford considers this to be a normal condition! Efficiency and performance are the two main goals behind the GM 10L80 transmission. Internally they are very different but at least with the 8l90 you do not need to completely disassemble the transmission to convert to 4wd from 2wd. It probably wont do much for the elapsed time which is all that really matters. The 6L80 is doubtless a very successful OEM transmission, and a terrific conversion transmission in the right Jeeps and situations. Complaints of erratic shifting, poor shift quality, missed shifts, and other shifting and TCC control complaints are becoming more common with these units. There are swaps for the 6L80 and 6L90 but they dont support all the Trailblazers. Even though it has two more gears, creative packaging allows the 10L80 transmission to be no bigger or heavier than an 8L90 or 6L90. Also fits '05-'06 Pontiac GTO (differential side). 6L80E Torque Converter Power Raptor Full Size Non-Billet Number 88-6L80-1, now with Billet Cover Option. Quick 6 Clutch-to-Clutch Transmission Control System Our top-of-the-line controller for 6R80 transmissions. If youre having problems with your 10L80 youre going to want the most economical solution. Spin losses (i.e. Its like wheres Waldo. But the replacement of this assembly requires new bolts. Muncie M20 4-speed longitudinal wide ratio manual transmission made by GM at their Muncie, Indiana factory. This platform did not get Gen 4 (58x CKP) engines until 2008. Ive heard a little about thisdid they add two more gears to the transmission? After graduating from Iowa State University with a journalism degree in 1978, he combined his two passions: cars and writing. This 7-3/8" long extension housing can eliminate transmission crossmember modifications when replacing a TH400 or TH200-4R transmission with a 4L60 assembly. Shift the transmission to Reverse. All rights reserved. 3. The location of the warmer and the routing of the hoses can vary widely. 700R4 / 4L60E with PATC close ratio gear set. The 6L80 transmission pan is similar in shape but the 6L80 is shorter at 17 1/2 inches. It can also be controlled under DSC, or Driver Shift Control, e.g., "tap shifting". Within only a year, GM had introduced an even stronger variant of the 6L80; the 6L90, RPO code MYD. Inspect the warmer for damage and related lines for leaks (Figure 4). Jeff Smith has had a passion for cars since he began working at his grandfather's gas station at the age 10. I use this vehicle to tow a 20 ft 10k trailer that I use to carry a 5500lb tractor. I work on other peoples vehicles for a living. Fluid pressure is maintained by an off-axis main pump that can vary the displacement depending on the load. But look at the clutch pistons and spring dampers they are markedly different. Thats right, you can find a variation of this Ford GM 10-speed automatic transmission in the Ford Mustang GT and the Chevrolet Camaro ZL1! (You can unsubscribe anytime), ATRA The readers on this site are a pretty sharp bunch. The idea behind this conversion offers multiple overlapping advantages. With 10 forward gears to choose from, the 10L80 transmission is able to reduce the fuel consumption of a high horsepower engine. There are five main inputs the vehicle uses for transmission shift strategy, they are: The Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle must be performed after any of the following procedures are performed: Perform the adaptive learning drive cycle on a level road surface as follows: After the final step, place the vehicle in park and cycle the ignition key off. Legal/Privacy. If we change to the latest GM 10-speed automatic it has a 4.70:1 First gear and is factory matched with a 2.85:1 rear gear. It has a line pressure tap for diagnostic purposes. Hi Jeff, I have a 2016 Silverado with the 5.3 and the 8 speed transmission. Upon a test drive and a scan, code P0741 is noted and the percentage of TCC slip shows to be way out of range. Special engine computer programming strategies may be required. The new 2019 Camaro gets the a10 but, Its not the a10 (10L90) from the ZL1. Maximum shift speed is 6500 RPM. For all practical purposes, these two transmissions are completely interchangeable. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. Engine torque estimate: Directly affects shift pressure control, TCC control, and transmission diagnostics. The 6L80 in its transaxle version for the Corvette. How is this different from the GM 6L80E transmission that is used in the Corvette or in the newer GM trucks? Thx Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. In 2006, GM superceded Dexron III as the recommended fill with Dexron VI, which is backwards compatible with the earlier versions. Engine speed: Directly affects shift scheduling, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) control, line pressure, and transmission diagnostics. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. The factory 4L80Eand the stronger 4L85is essentially a traditional TH-400 three-speed automatic equipped with a fourth, overdrive gear. Fits 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, 10L80 units, TR6060, TR3160 manual units. They can then use these unseen components throughout their different product lines and improve their profit margins through the lower shared development costs. Check out delicious pictures and movies from Peter Mrup, Dennis Andersson and Svein Pedersen. Click Here to Email our Sales & Tech Staff 888-748-4655 Local: 330-965-7146 International: 001-330-652-5855 Mon-Fri 8am-5pm EST Sat-Sun: Closed It is currently phasing out the 6L80/6L90 transmissions (although it hasn't done its all the way yet. This is a normal and desired behavior. For the most part, this transmission has been phased out by the 8L90E already, but is still in prodution.
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